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	<title>Comments for Badger Lawyer Blog</title>
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	<description>A Lawyer For The Rest Of Us</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 23:01:50 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on What is Jury Nullification? by BadgerLawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=132&#038;cpage=1#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>BadgerLawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 23:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=132#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Jury Nullification is perhaps the best kept secret in criminal law. Lawyers are strictly forbidden from talking about it to the jury, and the jury is instructed in a way that makes it sound like they do not have the power to nullify. I have had a couple of trials where the jury afterward told me they wanted to find differently, but did not think they were allowed to. They seemed to believe they would get into trouble if they did what they thought was right.  Because of that, I have learned over the years to do everything I can to give the jury some &lt;em&gt;reason &lt;/em&gt;to find for my client, because then if they have the instinct to nullify, they have a reason based on the facts to go ahead and reach a verdict without worrying about getting in trouble. For example, in a Marijuana possession case where I suspect the jury might feel for my client, I might say &quot;Now you see he admitted to the police it was his pipe, and everyone agrees it was marijuana, but the charge is Possession of Tetrahydracanabinols. Did you hear one single person use that magic word?&quot; That at least sets up a way for the jury to feel like it can find for my client on one of those famous &quot;technicalities,&quot; which (unlike nullification) EVERYONE knows is an okay reason to render a verdict.

You ask for my personal thoughts on jury nullification, and that is a complicated question. Not to get too philosophical, but if you think about formal systems of judging people, like courts, then history shows us a range of perspectives, from our system, which admonishes random people from the community to make a determination on the basis of logic and reason, to completely arbitrary systems in totalitarian regimes where you can get dead because you angered the wrong person. Somewhere along that spectrum, from pure arbitrariness to complete logic, the two opposites have to meet. In our system, that point is nullification. It is the amount of arbitrariness we allow. And I do think some amount is necessary, because there has to be a way for the deserving individual to escape an overly harsh punishment of blind justice. Like the PBS documentary about the homeless ex-con who found a handgun on the street, called the police, and brought it to them like they told him to -- and was then charged by them with felon in possession. A fair system has to allow a jury to acquit a technically guilty individual who just shouldn&#039;t be convicted. Otherwise, we place the law above our humanity. But on the other hand, arbitrariness in justice is the source of innumerable cruelties throughout history. &quot;Witches&quot; have been burned, Christians fed to lions, Jews sent to concentration camps, all in the name of (arbitrary) justice. History is littered with the corpses of victims of the arbitrary ruler&#039;s &quot;because I say so.&quot;  When arbitrariness is a significant part of the legal system, the barbaric, animal nature in humanity seems to leak out. And while I do think we should place our humanity above the law, I also am glad to live in a place and time where we place the law above our darker nature.

So, how do I feel about jury nullification? Like most lawyers, when it works for my client, I feel great about it, and I wouldn&#039;t mind if juries had a little more knowledge about it. But I would be very concerned about a legal system that devolved into juries of individuals who were absolutely confident in their ability to completely disregard the law and do whatever the hell they wanted. Our system strongly encourages juries to respect the law and set aside prejudices. In my experience, juries try very hard to uphold that, and I thank them for that. That does not always happen, though. Sometime a jury &quot;arbitrarily&quot; does the right thing by nullifying, but just as often, the jury does the wrong thing because they don&#039;t like the look of the accused, whether because he is black, brown, ugly, gay, skin headed, illegal, or any other marker that draws on a collective prejudice of the random 12.  A world where juries feel empowered to act on their prejudices is not a world I want to live in, and is one I spend considerable effort struggling against. 

In the end, I am pretty satisfied with the system the way it is. For the most part jurors take their role quite seriously, and really do their best to reach the right result for the right reasons. While I could (and sometimes do) go on at length about the flaws, unfairnesses, inefficiencies and prejudices in the system, at the core I believe we have achieved a justice system that, at the core, is about as good as humanly possible. 

Thanks for your post.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jury Nullification is perhaps the best kept secret in criminal law. Lawyers are strictly forbidden from talking about it to the jury, and the jury is instructed in a way that makes it sound like they do not have the power to nullify. I have had a couple of trials where the jury afterward told me they wanted to find differently, but did not think they were allowed to. They seemed to believe they would get into trouble if they did what they thought was right.  Because of that, I have learned over the years to do everything I can to give the jury some <em>reason </em>to find for my client, because then if they have the instinct to nullify, they have a reason based on the facts to go ahead and reach a verdict without worrying about getting in trouble. For example, in a Marijuana possession case where I suspect the jury might feel for my client, I might say &#8220;Now you see he admitted to the police it was his pipe, and everyone agrees it was marijuana, but the charge is Possession of Tetrahydracanabinols. Did you hear one single person use that magic word?&#8221; That at least sets up a way for the jury to feel like it can find for my client on one of those famous &#8220;technicalities,&#8221; which (unlike nullification) EVERYONE knows is an okay reason to render a verdict.</p>
<p>You ask for my personal thoughts on jury nullification, and that is a complicated question. Not to get too philosophical, but if you think about formal systems of judging people, like courts, then history shows us a range of perspectives, from our system, which admonishes random people from the community to make a determination on the basis of logic and reason, to completely arbitrary systems in totalitarian regimes where you can get dead because you angered the wrong person. Somewhere along that spectrum, from pure arbitrariness to complete logic, the two opposites have to meet. In our system, that point is nullification. It is the amount of arbitrariness we allow. And I do think some amount is necessary, because there has to be a way for the deserving individual to escape an overly harsh punishment of blind justice. Like the PBS documentary about the homeless ex-con who found a handgun on the street, called the police, and brought it to them like they told him to &#8212; and was then charged by them with felon in possession. A fair system has to allow a jury to acquit a technically guilty individual who just shouldn&#8217;t be convicted. Otherwise, we place the law above our humanity. But on the other hand, arbitrariness in justice is the source of innumerable cruelties throughout history. &#8220;Witches&#8221; have been burned, Christians fed to lions, Jews sent to concentration camps, all in the name of (arbitrary) justice. History is littered with the corpses of victims of the arbitrary ruler&#8217;s &#8220;because I say so.&#8221;  When arbitrariness is a significant part of the legal system, the barbaric, animal nature in humanity seems to leak out. And while I do think we should place our humanity above the law, I also am glad to live in a place and time where we place the law above our darker nature.</p>
<p>So, how do I feel about jury nullification? Like most lawyers, when it works for my client, I feel great about it, and I wouldn&#8217;t mind if juries had a little more knowledge about it. But I would be very concerned about a legal system that devolved into juries of individuals who were absolutely confident in their ability to completely disregard the law and do whatever the hell they wanted. Our system strongly encourages juries to respect the law and set aside prejudices. In my experience, juries try very hard to uphold that, and I thank them for that. That does not always happen, though. Sometime a jury &#8220;arbitrarily&#8221; does the right thing by nullifying, but just as often, the jury does the wrong thing because they don&#8217;t like the look of the accused, whether because he is black, brown, ugly, gay, skin headed, illegal, or any other marker that draws on a collective prejudice of the random 12.  A world where juries feel empowered to act on their prejudices is not a world I want to live in, and is one I spend considerable effort struggling against. </p>
<p>In the end, I am pretty satisfied with the system the way it is. For the most part jurors take their role quite seriously, and really do their best to reach the right result for the right reasons. While I could (and sometimes do) go on at length about the flaws, unfairnesses, inefficiencies and prejudices in the system, at the core I believe we have achieved a justice system that, at the core, is about as good as humanly possible. </p>
<p>Thanks for your post.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on What is Jury Nullification? by MsW</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=132&#038;cpage=1#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>MsW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 19:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=132#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Why isn&#039;t the concept of Jury Nullfication more well-known?

I&#039;ve spoken to several people on this issue.  Many of these people are well-educated, and many have also served on juries.  
None of those people, however, were at all aware of the jury&#039;s right to nullify!

I&#039;ve read that in some states judges and prosecuting attorneys will dismiss jurors if it&#039;s discovered they are as much as *AWARE* of Jury Nullification.  Do you find that to be true in Wisconsin?

Do these judges and attorneys truly feel that the potential jurors aren&#039;t capable of distinguishing whether or not laws are just or where they indeed, do not apply to a case?  Why the &#039;secrecy&#039;?

AS a defense attorney, what are your personal thoughts on Jury Nullification?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why isn&#8217;t the concept of Jury Nullfication more well-known?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spoken to several people on this issue.  Many of these people are well-educated, and many have also served on juries.<br />
None of those people, however, were at all aware of the jury&#8217;s right to nullify!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read that in some states judges and prosecuting attorneys will dismiss jurors if it&#8217;s discovered they are as much as *AWARE* of Jury Nullification.  Do you find that to be true in Wisconsin?</p>
<p>Do these judges and attorneys truly feel that the potential jurors aren&#8217;t capable of distinguishing whether or not laws are just or where they indeed, do not apply to a case?  Why the &#8217;secrecy&#8217;?</p>
<p>AS a defense attorney, what are your personal thoughts on Jury Nullification?</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case? by What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case? &#124; Criminal Defense Attorney / Criminal Lawyer Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=180&#038;cpage=1#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case? &#124; Criminal Defense Attorney / Criminal Lawyer Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=180#comment-18</guid>
		<description>[...] The rest is here: What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The rest is here: What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case? [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Domestic Misdemeanor Crimes &amp; Your Gun Rights by What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case?</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=176&#038;cpage=1#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>What Are Collateral Consequences in a Criminal Case?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=176#comment-11</guid>
		<description>[...] Possession of Firearms. Most people know if you are convicted of a felony you lose your right to bear arms under Wisconsin law. Many people do not know that if you are convicted in a misdemeanor case involving domestic violence, you may also fall under Federal guidelines prohibiting firearm possession. The enforcement of this law is being stepped up. Now, even if you plead to a misdemeanor without a Domestic Violence label, the federal government will pull the criminal file and see if there was a domestic element to the offense. If there was, you would be denied the right to buy a gun. Even if it was just a disorderly conduct. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Possession of Firearms. Most people know if you are convicted of a felony you lose your right to bear arms under Wisconsin law. Many people do not know that if you are convicted in a misdemeanor case involving domestic violence, you may also fall under Federal guidelines prohibiting firearm possession. The enforcement of this law is being stepped up. Now, even if you plead to a misdemeanor without a Domestic Violence label, the federal government will pull the criminal file and see if there was a domestic element to the offense. If there was, you would be denied the right to buy a gun. Even if it was just a disorderly conduct. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Case Against No Fault Divorce by BadgerLawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>BadgerLawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Getting a law changed can be an arduous process -- you remember the Saturday morning cartoon: &quot;I&#039;m just a bill.&quot; The first step is to find like minded people and form a group that shares your views. Facebook and other social networking media can be a big help here. Then draft some proposed legislation. It doesn&#039;t have to be legalese, but it should contain a statement of the ideas or concepts that you think should be put into place. Once you are organized and have a legislative goal, then you want to start lobbying -- which just means contacting the appropriate legislator(s). In family law matters, your state legislator would be the person you want. The bigger your group, the more impact you will have with legislators.


Here are a couple links that might help you get started:
http://www.wikihow.com/Change-a-Law-Through-the-Democratic-Process
http://www.answerbag.com/articles/How-to-Lobby-to-Change-a-Law/8205884e-5f1b-42de-8b27-f88a72d017d9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting a law changed can be an arduous process &#8212; you remember the Saturday morning cartoon: &#8220;I&#8217;m just a bill.&#8221; The first step is to find like minded people and form a group that shares your views. Facebook and other social networking media can be a big help here. Then draft some proposed legislation. It doesn&#8217;t have to be legalese, but it should contain a statement of the ideas or concepts that you think should be put into place. Once you are organized and have a legislative goal, then you want to start lobbying &#8212; which just means contacting the appropriate legislator(s). In family law matters, your state legislator would be the person you want. The bigger your group, the more impact you will have with legislators.</p>
<p>Here are a couple links that might help you get started:<br />
<a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Change-a-Law-Through-the-Democratic-Process" rel="nofollow">http://www.wikihow.com/Change-a-Law-Through-the-Democratic-Process</a><br />
<a href="http://www.answerbag.com/articles/How-to-Lobby-to-Change-a-Law/8205884e-5f1b-42de-8b27-f88a72d017d9" rel="nofollow">http://www.answerbag.com/articles/How-to-Lobby-to-Change-a-Law/8205884e-5f1b-42de-8b27-f88a72d017d9</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Case Against No Fault Divorce by petey2ruby</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>petey2ruby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Ther are some of us who would be willing to changelaws. Where do we start? Who do we contact?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ther are some of us who would be willing to changelaws. Where do we start? Who do we contact?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Municipal Immunity by BadgerLawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=115&#038;cpage=1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>BadgerLawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=115#comment-8</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely right -- the &quot;known danger&quot; rule is available, but only in very few cases. In fact, common sense would say that the example used in my original post -- a sewer pipe across a river where kids were &lt;em&gt;known to have&lt;/em&gt; torn a fence down once already would certainly by a &quot;known&quot; danger.  In &lt;em&gt;Domino&lt;/em&gt;, a motorcyclist was injured when she hit a downed tree across a road. The County knew about the tree and had earlier dispatched an officer, but then had diverted the squad elsewhere for an accident. The County thus knew about the danger, and failed to warn or take other action. In another case, &lt;em&gt;Cords v. Anderson&lt;/em&gt;, a municipality was held liable for not putting up a warning sign along a narrow hiking trail beside a 90 foot drop. The known danger rule was used there to hold the municipality liable for not putting up a warning sign. I am not sure I see an essential difference between the degree of &quot;known danger&quot; in these cases and the sewer pipe case. 

I did a quick search of other cases that referred to &lt;em&gt;Domino&lt;/em&gt;.  Out of 11 cases, 10 &quot;Distinguished&quot; from Domino, which is legalese for disagreed with. In other words, in 10 other cases, the court, looking at someone trying to use the &quot;known danger&quot; rule, said &quot;No.&quot; In the 11th case, the court also said &quot;no,&quot; just more strongly. Now this isn&#039;t a complete legal analysis of the issue, but it does make the point. It is hard to sue municipalities.

Thank you for your insightful comments, Tree Guy. 

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely right &#8212; the &#8220;known danger&#8221; rule is available, but only in very few cases. In fact, common sense would say that the example used in my original post &#8212; a sewer pipe across a river where kids were <em>known to have</em> torn a fence down once already would certainly by a &#8220;known&#8221; danger.  In <em>Domino</em>, a motorcyclist was injured when she hit a downed tree across a road. The County knew about the tree and had earlier dispatched an officer, but then had diverted the squad elsewhere for an accident. The County thus knew about the danger, and failed to warn or take other action. In another case, <em>Cords v. Anderson</em>, a municipality was held liable for not putting up a warning sign along a narrow hiking trail beside a 90 foot drop. The known danger rule was used there to hold the municipality liable for not putting up a warning sign. I am not sure I see an essential difference between the degree of &#8220;known danger&#8221; in these cases and the sewer pipe case. </p>
<p>I did a quick search of other cases that referred to <em>Domino</em>.  Out of 11 cases, 10 &#8220;Distinguished&#8221; from Domino, which is legalese for disagreed with. In other words, in 10 other cases, the court, looking at someone trying to use the &#8220;known danger&#8221; rule, said &#8220;No.&#8221; In the 11th case, the court also said &#8220;no,&#8221; just more strongly. Now this isn&#8217;t a complete legal analysis of the issue, but it does make the point. It is hard to sue municipalities.</p>
<p>Thank you for your insightful comments, Tree Guy. </p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Case Against No Fault Divorce by BadgerLawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>BadgerLawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152#comment-7</guid>
		<description>I agree with you wholeheartedly that if a few lawyers work harder it puts pressure on the rest to do so to.  You are also right that there are many laws that can protect both parties .. it is getting them used as intended that proves problematic. You have to find a lawyer who is clever and assertive and willing to go out on a limb.  As you imply, that&#039;s harder than it looks.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you wholeheartedly that if a few lawyers work harder it puts pressure on the rest to do so to.  You are also right that there are many laws that can protect both parties .. it is getting them used as intended that proves problematic. You have to find a lawyer who is clever and assertive and willing to go out on a limb.  As you imply, that&#8217;s harder than it looks.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Case Against No Fault Divorce by petey2ruby</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152&#038;cpage=1#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>petey2ruby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=152#comment-6</guid>
		<description>First: a disclaimer... not all attornies are the same. Okay, now, how do we raise the bar (no pun intended)so we lay people don&#039;t feel like we need to study statutes in order to feellike we&#039;re getting the best protection our hired guns can give us? As far as Wisconsin marriage law goes, there are actually alot of laws to protect each party if they&#039;re utilized as intended. However, the consequences for violating, say, the law regarding informing the other spouse before granting credit is weak. &quot;In the best interest of the family&quot;? When you gave him a loan 2 months after he ran away? Did you even verify his address? Disseminate information and make a splash with a big case so it makes the press.If one, then two, lawyers work a little harder, then they will all have to work harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First: a disclaimer&#8230; not all attornies are the same. Okay, now, how do we raise the bar (no pun intended)so we lay people don&#8217;t feel like we need to study statutes in order to feellike we&#8217;re getting the best protection our hired guns can give us? As far as Wisconsin marriage law goes, there are actually alot of laws to protect each party if they&#8217;re utilized as intended. However, the consequences for violating, say, the law regarding informing the other spouse before granting credit is weak. &#8220;In the best interest of the family&#8221;? When you gave him a loan 2 months after he ran away? Did you even verify his address? Disseminate information and make a splash with a big case so it makes the press.If one, then two, lawyers work a little harder, then they will all have to work harder.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Municipal Immunity by Tree guy</title>
		<link>http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=115&#038;cpage=1#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Tree guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badgerlawyer.com/blog/?p=115#comment-5</guid>
		<description>One example would be the 1984 case of Domino v. Walworth County</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One example would be the 1984 case of Domino v. Walworth County</p>
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